John English Interview Transcript ( Michigan DUI Lawyer )

 

Richard Jacobs of myduiattorney .org interviews John English, a DUI lawyer and general criminal lawyer in Michigan. He works for the firm Kronzek & Cronkright.

 

RJ: What makes you choose to handle DUI cases and what motivates you to be a criminal defense attorney in the first place?

JE: In terms of just criminal defense work generally, I find the work challenging. I think it’s a very useful function to perform, and gives me the opportunity to help. In terms of concentrating on drunk driving, it is an offence that covers the whole spectrum of people, from people with not much money to the people who are very wealthy financially, to men and women equally. So it’s an offense that has very broad consequences for people, it affects their liberty in the worst case scenario and their driver’s licenses, so it’s the type of offense that can affect a lot of people with negative consequences and I can help minimize those consequences many times.

RJ: How many DUI cases have you handled and in what time period?

 

JE: I’ve been doing DWI cases or drunk driving cases since 1985 so I’ve been doing them for approximately 25 years and I’ve done hundreds of cases.

 

RJ: What changes have you noticed over these 25 years the in the law, and in the people?

 

JE: Well, I found in my experience the majority of people charged with driving while intoxicated are first time offenders - that’s always been the case. But there continues to be a smaller group of people who repeat this offense many times, and as you are aware that the laws have been becoming more stringent, and after years this can have really devastating consequences for such people.

 

RJ: What commonality do you see in the dui defendants you help?

 

JE: Obviously repeat offenders arguably don’t use the best judgment, anybody could make a mistake, have one drink too many, go out and be pulled over by a police officer and many people in criminal justice system of course recognize that, but repeat offenders don’t seem to (for whatever reason) learn from prior consequences and they’re out there drinking and driving when many of us would not be doing that.

 

RJ: Of the clients you’ve had, do a lot of them have a blood alcohol level close to the .08 limit or do a lot of them seem to have significantly higher blood alcohol levels?

 

JE: The majority of clients are not at or near the legal level, in Michigan right now it’s .08, the majority of clients that I see are probably say for example .12 or so. Roughly that’ll be one and a half times the legal limit and some are up to .20 .22 .24 something like that, so probably two and half times the normal level.

 

RJ: Do you see a lot more cases due to alcohol or drugs, and is a drug case DUI easier or harder to defend?

 

JE: I see a many more cases of drinking and driving with alcohol involved. As for drug cases, Michigan has recently legalized the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes when prescribed by a doctor and these matters are currently being worked out in the appellate courts, in terms of if you are lawfully entitled to use marijuana medically, if it is still illegal to be operating a vehicle with the presence of any THC in your blood, that particular issue is in the court of appeals right now.

 

RJ: If a person had to use marijuana two weeks ago, got pulled over today, will he or she be charged for a drug related DUI?

 

JE: Michigan has one offense that is called operating with the presence of drugs and certain controlled drugs, schedule 1 or 2 drugs, it is illegal to operate under the influence of these drugs and of course THC is one of those substances. So generally it is illegal for someone in the general public clearly to operate a vehicle with any THC in their blood even if they are not intoxicated, meaning even if it has an effect at their ability to drive.

 

RJ: Can you speak about the penalties for that particular offense?

 

JE: Operating with the presence of drugs generally speaking carries the same penalties as a drunk driving offense in Michigan. Generally the penalties are the same for a drinking and driving offence or a drug driving offence with minor variations.

 

RJ: What other unique things do you know about DWI laws in Michigan or in the counties and cities you serve?

 

JE: When I practiced in New Hampshire a number of years ago, the law there was you had a right to refuse a breath or a blood test and if you did so then you’d be subject to administrative sanctions which would involve license loss. In Michigan you don’t have a right to refuse, essentially you’re going to incur administrative sanction and then in Michigan they will obtain your typical breath or blood test so that would be an example of how things are may be different in this state.

 

RJ: What would be your best advice to some who has had a few drinks and is literally in the process of being pulled over?

 

JE: Oh, I’m glad you asked that, I make it a point to tell not only to all my clients but pretty much anybody that I speak to about a Michigan DWI charge the following, first of all I try to explain to them that’s it’s important that you never lie to a police officer. You may find that you want to testify at a trial or a hearing, and if you have to start of that process by admitting under oath that you lied earlier, that’s not going to help your case.

 

I tell people that once the police officer notes that they’ve been drinking and it’s them behind the wheel that they are highly likely going to be arrested, and anything they say or do will not change that. I believe that the officer’s job, most officers feel is to probably in their words “get the drunk off the road”. I think that the officer’s going to arrest anybody that they believe was drinking and is behind the wheel rather than let them go free.

 

I then suggest to people, that when the officer asks them if they’ve been drinking or what’ve they had to drink, that they decline to answer any such questions until they have an attorney present.

 

It’s to be expected that the officer will observe that “there aren’t any attorneys available right now ma’am or sir”. I then tell people that you should say “Well then I don’t want to make any statements, till I have ability to consult with an attorney”.

 

It’s always damaging to make any admissions to a police officer especially when you don’t have to make those admissions (you’re not legally compelled to in a criminal investigation). I then advise clients that they generally should refuse to any kind of field sobriety test, any kind of physical road side test are not to their advantage to take. I also suggest, here in Michigan, we have a preliminary breath test (PBT) that’s administered pre arrest and I always advise people to refuse the PBT. (Note: it’s a hand held little machine that measures your blood alcohol level.)

 

JE: Well, as I was saying about the PBT, I advise people not to take a PBT, if you’re in Michigan there are no points added for you to go to jail, you’ll be issued a civil infraction, it’s not a crime it’s like a speeding ticket. So I reiterate: don’t answer any questions, don’t do any physical road side tests, don’t take any preliminary breath tests if you have not been arrested.

 

Then once somebody is arrested I advise OWI suspects in Michigan to take whatever tests, either breath or blood that the arresting officer requests. In Michigan if you refuse a request to test after you’ve been arrested, you will get you six points on your driving record, and for a first refusal your license will be suspended for one year.

 

I tell clients that in essence, that before the arrest apart from providing the officer the registration and insurance of your vehicle at request, that pretty much anything else that the officer asks them to answer or blow into they should decline to do. Once they’re arrested, then they should comply.

 

RJ: What kind of help can you provide to people accused of OWI, in terms of the fines they have to pay, ignition interlocks, time in court, license suspension and jail time?

 

JE: In a drunk driving case, and in Michigan it’s called “Operating While Intoxicated” or OWI. It is very important that you contact an attorney as soon as possible. Some people are given the opportunity by the police officers to make a phone call when they’re trying to decide whether or not to take a breath or a blood test and if you’re allowed to do that and you get hold of an attorney you should tell the attorney (I’m digressing briefly but it won’t be for long), you should tell the attorney that “I’m in a police station, I have a police officer sitting next to me, I’ve been asked to take a breath or blood test and I need some legal advice now please ask me questions I can answer yes or no” and the attorney should then of course be able to ask those questions such as, You’ve been arrested for drunk driving? Yes. Have you been drinking alcohol tonight? Yes. Have you had any illegal drugs? No, etc and give them some advice.

 

More generally and probably more responsively to your question, it’s important as I was saying that somebody charged with a Michigan OWI contact and ideally retain a local attorney to represent their interest as soon as possible.

 

First of all in Michigan if you again refuse to an officer’s post arrest request for chemical test you’ll be suspended (your driver’s license), and you have 14 days to get a written request for a hearing to the secretary of state. If you don’t make that deadline then don’t request it in the proper manner, you will frequently if not always be suspended for a minimum of one year, so it’s important that you contact an attorney immediately.

 

Also if somebody is my client we proceed along two parallel tracks, one is, to defend on the merits ‘the charge’, the second parallel track involves assisting the client to be ready and as well prepared as possible to be facing a judge at any court date or hearing.

 

JE: In that regard typically with drunk driving cases, substance abuse assessments will often be obtained by the client and other work related to alcohol will be engaged in by the client under our oversight, which helps the client to be better prepared to appear before a judge, should that have to happen.

 

Also there are different charges in Michigan such as: operating while intoxicated (OWI), operation while visibly impaired (OVI), other non drunk driving charges that have different fines and penaltie , including different maximum jail time. An attorney’s involvement, especially the involvement of our firm Kronzek and Cronkright, can help minimize many of those potential damages for someone.

 

RJ: In general what level of success you’ve had in reducing some or all of the related issues that can happen to someone being prosecuted for OWI or OVI?

 

JE: We can typically and in nearly all cases mitigate at least some damage and often times we can mitigate most of the damage but it’s always good to retain council in a drunk driving case and experienced council obviously would be the most helpful to the person.

 

RJ: What have you learned about people’s behavior, in their reaction to being arrested and prosecuted for DUI based on the hundreds of clients that you have seen?

 

JE: I’ve got a lot of different insights including the one I’ve alluded to earlier, which is, with smaller group of repeat offenders I’ve found it somewhat surprising that they will continue to drink and drive after they suffered the consequences of the drunk driving conviction. On the other hand I suppose generally the more experience we get in life the less we’re surprised by things, and I’ve also come to appreciate the judicial system.

 

It is a system that you are aware takes its place over a period of time and just the time involved in the judicial process allows more people to think about what they did or didn’t do and come to terms with it more over a period of time. I’ve also seen how in Michigan, the judicial system, with extremely rare exception, is very dignified process. And while punishments are meted out when somebody is convicted within the limits of the law, it’s a process that attempts to take into account everybody’s dignity including the accused.

 

RJ: From the people who are the first time offenders is there a particular story that you hear over and over?

 

JE: I think for a typical first time offender, the story I hear over and over is in essence boils down to “I had one or two drinks too many, and the end result was my usual good judgment left me, and I got behind the wheel thinking I was fine to drive.”. And I find that it typically appears to be true.

 

RJ: Do you feel the current punishments in Michigan for OWI are too harsh or are they too relaxed and why?

 

JE: I don’t know but in my personal opinion I think in our society in general and certainly in the state of Michigan as any other state it’s the legislature that figures the penalties and they are all responsive to presumably their constituents which include myself and all the other lawyers at this firm, including police officers and everybody else.

 

So I think possibly when I was younger I had less experience as attorney, I was bothered more about some aspects of the penalties but I think at this point I would not be supporting or opposing any of the penalties in particular. I think whatever the legislature chooses to do presumably has the backing of the citizens.

 

RJ: What do you see is the future of OWI in Michigan in terms of punishments and the number of offenders?

 

JE: It will definitely continue to get more harsh, and I believe it has for twenty five years. I do believe that more efforts are being made at treatment and we see more sobriety courts where the effort is to get people into treatment immediately. And something like a sobriety court also has the affect many times of getting the cases off an active trial docket, so I have mixed feelings about sobriety courts, but I certainly agree with the philosophy. If somebody has an alcohol problem, they should get treatment of some kind immediately.

 

At Kronzek & Cronkright we are a firm specifically of criminal trial attorneys, we try our best to assist our clients in both ways, if they need assistance with any issues related to substance abuse, we help them out with that matter, and we are also are willing to and do try cases.

 

RJ: What makes your firm unique in providing OWI defense and what statement you want to make to potential clients that will be watching this video?

 

JE: Well, Kronzek & Cronkright is as I just indicated a firm of trial attorneys, we are aggressive in the defense of our clients. Our client’s well being is our number one consideration. In these types of offenses (drinking and drugged driving offense) at least some people arrested for these types of charges do have issues related to alcohol abuse. If somebody has those types of problems who is one of our clients we assist them in getting any help that they need while at the same time aggressively defending their case.

 

At Kronzek & Cronkright we will try a drunk driving case (are not hesitant to do so) and many times prosecutors aren’t used to defense council in going to trial in such cases.

 

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