Aaron Bortel, California DUI Attorney (Interview Transcript):

RJ: Hi, this is Richard Jacobs from My DUI Attorney. I’m here today with Aaron Bortel. He’s a 19 year criminal defense attorney out of the San Francisco area in California. How are you doing, Mr. Bortel?

 

AB: Good, good morning, Richard. How are you?

 

RJ: Good. Thanks for taking the time today. I appreciate it very much.

 

AB: Let’s get started.

 

RJ: No problem. The first question is what is your motivation for being a criminal defense attorney in general? And in particular, you seem to handle a lot of DUI cases. I was wondering why you tend to focus on them.

 

AB: Yeah, I’ve always been interested in defending people charged with crimes. I knew going into law school and when I was an undergrad, I wanted to do criminal defense work, and instead of doing what a lot of other attorneys do – what civil attorneys do – which is a lot of fighting over money. I wanted to help people. And I can really help a lot of people when they’re being charged by the government for committing a crime and something like DUI is something that most people who drive a car and drink alcohol can relate to. Everybody is a possibility if you do both of those, so it’s an area where a lot of science comes in, dealing with people is important, but I think it all comes back to being able to help people, help people who really, really need someone who can pay a lot of attention to them, care about them, and make a difference in their lives. Because DUIs can really impact your present employment, future employment, travel, all sorts of things. So anyway, I like to help people, and I think I can help a lot of people doing DUI offense.

RJ: So what type of DUI cases do you handle? And actually where do you practice? Is it just San Francisco, or is it all the North county area?

AB: I practice throughout the San Francisco Bay area, so all the counties. Most of my cases are in the Bay area. In fact, usually it’s 99% of my cases are here. Sometimes I go outside the Bay area, but when I do that, I take a lot of time away from my Bay area clients so I try and keep it local. San Francisco is where my main office is. I’ve got a satellite office in Marin. I’m in Napa and Sonoma a lot. San Manteo a lot. I’m in the East Bay, Oakland. I get down to Pleasanton, Hayward, Freemont, Contra Costa County, Walnut Creek, and I also get down to Santa Clara County. I used to go to a number of other places, but again, time-wise I need to just stay within the Bay area or else all my time is spent traveling.

 

RJ: And then, about the people that you see, is there any typical person that you end up representing? Do you see more first-time people? Or men or women?

 

AB: Actually I represent all walks of life. I’ve representing doctors, lawyers, nurses, educators, politicians, musicians, you usually don’t – in fact, you never reveal who your clients are. I had one who recently died who was one of the first cases I ever did when I was younger. It was more of a traffic matter, but I represented Clarence Clemons, who was a saxophonist for Bruce Springsteen and known by people all over the world. But I represent athletes. There are a lot of professional athletes around the Bay area who have gotten in trouble whether they’re with the 49ers organization or [indecipherable] and so once we’re all done, no matter how the case comes out, they know what needs to be done to stay out of trouble, so they don’t need to come back as a future client. I do represent a lot of second-time offenders, multiple offenders, third, fourth, fifth, something sixth, and I do a good number of felony DUIs, and those are ones where you have 4 or more DUIs or this is your 4th one, or if there is an injury accident. Those get a lot more serious. I’ve represented many people and I’ve gotten some very, very good results over the years.

 

RJ: So of the clients that you see, do a lot of them have high BAC levels or are a lot of them close to that .08 limit?

 

AB: They’re all over the place. In most cases the closer you are to the legal limit, the better chance we have winning you case or getting charges reduced, keeping you driving, but I do get a lot of high blood alcohol levels. Sometimes the blood alcohol level is so high that it’s kind of unbelievable, and we do a lot of different things to try and show that there’s – that this is not a credible blood alcohol leve. We retest blood samples. We use a disconnect in some cases where you’ll have someone not driving to bad, maybe they got pulled over for a tail light being out, and then they were given field sobriety tests, did really well, then blew into a machine and they were 3 times the legal limit. And someone being .24, .25, and balancing on one leg for 30 second no problem, that doesn’t make sense. So you know, the fact that someone has a high blood alcohol level as reported by the police or by the lab after the blood is tested, does not always mean that that’s the true blood alcohol level. And we have a lot of defenses that could go along with the blood alcohol levels, when they’re inconsistent, or to show that they’re not correct. Someone had a recent drink, and they’re not fully absorbed. The alcohol’s not fully absorbed into their system. They very well are lower than the number that comes out on a breath test or a blood test if they are still absorbing alcohol. There’s a lot of science to this theory, and basically what’s going on is the absorption is still taking place and a breath sample that’s coming from the lungs is going to have more saturated alcohol than a sample that would be fully-absorbed breath test or blood test, a half hour or maybe an hour later, when the alcohol has fully absorbed by all the water in the body, and gone to all the extremities. So it can be misleading, and people think I’m over the limit. That’s it. I’m done. I don’t need a lawyer. No, you never know, so it’s very important to at least consult with lawyer, a DUI lawyer, someone who specializes in DUI defense, and then see what your defenses are and what your chances are.

 

RJ: Okay, I’ve heard of the phenomenon of mouth alcohol, and I’ve also heard of people when they’re pulled over, they might – I don’t know – worry that their breath is bad, they’ll chug some mouthwash and end up escalating their blood alcohol level by doing that.

 

AB: Yeah, the amount of alcohol is something that not always detected on a preliminary alcohol screening device, the machine that the police officer usually has when they pull you over, and because it’s not always detectable, it can make your results appear much higher. If you do a Listerine strip, if you just had some soy sauce, white winter bread, these things have been tested and they’ve showed up they’ve created a false positive which makes it look like alcohol on a preliminary blood alcohol screening machine. For example, the machine that allowed the police officers in the Bay use is called MicroSensor 4, and I got one right here, you can see this, hold it up to the camera. Basically what happens here is, they blow into this device, and there’s a fuel cell inside of here. What they’re not is what’s called a slump detector which is supposed to be able to detect mouth alcohol and I’m not going to get into the science of all of that but this preliminary machine may show you being a lot higher than you actually are. If you regurgitated, you may be getting mouth alcohol. Sometimes people have dental pockets. There’s all sorts of different types of reasons why mouth alcohol may be present.

 

RJ: Do you see a lot of DUI cases due to drugs or mostly alcohol? And are the drug cases usually more complicated to defend?

 

AB: We’re starting to see a lot more marijuana cases. In fact, I talked to a number of people this week who were arrested for DUI drugs. The big difference, especially for marijuana, it’s a lot harder to prove. You don’t have that .08 fine line. DA’s offices don’t like the marijuana cases as much because they are tougher to prove. They don’t have that number that they can really rely on. They like to cling to that number. DUI drugs – so many different types of drugs. It’s tougher to prove being under the influence of a drug than alcohol because you don’t get that number but you do get scientific levels and they can be very tough cases as well. I don’t think the number – other than the marijuana cases – has gone up. What people need to be very careful of – when they are smoking marijuana in California – every other person seems to now have a marijuana card – is the time between when you smoke and when you drive. There are different guidelines for this. The best, the safest thing to do is don’t drive the same time, but make sure there are many, many hours between the smoking and the driving. I always tell people, you know, if you can, wait at least 6 hours, 8 hours, just so that there’s no question. But if you do get arrested for DUI marijuana, it’s something where if you tell the cop that you smoked recently they will definitely go after you and they’ve got some good evidence to use against you because it’s just an impairment charge. In California, we have two different charges, Vehicle Code Section 23152A, which is impairment, which basically says were you driving with the care and caution of a sober person, and 23152B of the Vehicle Code which says that you were driving at or over .08 blood alcohol level.

 

RJ: What happens if, let’s say you smoke, and then you don’t even drive until the next day, and I don’t know, you have a tail light out, and you’re pulled over. What if they do a blood test and they found metabolites of marijuana in your system but I mean you weren’t impaired. Let’s say it was two days ago, or three days ago. What happens then?

 

AB: Those are the cases that they shouldn’t find the metabolites at a level where they will be able to successfully prosecute you. It’s very important to if they do ask if you smoked, like I just said, you want to say, it was a long time, that it was the day before. And you should be okay. But yeah, I mean, you got marijuana in your system as most people have heard for a month or two months, it can stay there for a long time. But to show a certain level is what they need to do, and there’s that and there’s always the impairment charge which is part of it but if they can show bad driving and poor field sobriety tests, sometimes they try to go off it for the fight. Unfortunately in those cases you will need a lawyer to fight for you because if you try to fight it by yourself, you’ve go a fool for a lawyer.

 

RJ: Okay, so you mentioned that you do DUI cases in San Francisco and a bunch of different counties, and I know that where you are is like the wine country, there’s downtown, and there’s quieter areas. Is there any difference in the DUI laws by county, or a difference in the people you see? Anything unusual?

 

AB: Yeah, we have a lot of counties here in the Bay area. And the wine country is definitely a very popular place for people to go when they live around here or they’re from out of town. Napa and Sonoma are considered the wine country. They’re different counties. They’re different courthouses. Sonoma courthouse is in Santa Rosa. I’m up there, seems like at least once or twice a week, and same with Napa. I was just in Napa yesterday morning, working on a couple of cases, and Napa’s very strict. The penalties there are stricter than most places. The strictest one in the Bay area is usually Santa Clara county, but Napa, I’d say, is a close second, and in certain cases, even more strict. Napa can be like this because they have a jury pool made up of people that are very anti-DUI. I mean no one’s in favor of driving over the limit and doing any favors for anybody who is, but in Napa, they’ve got a lot of two-lane roads. They get a lot of head-ons. They get a lot of people from out of town, and locals get hurt. So that’s why it’s very strict. There’s a lot of places like that all over the country, but there’s so much alcohol and wine tasting going on in Napa that they are very strict. Penalty-wise, everywhere is different. I’ve practices DUI a lot in very county in the Bay area so I’m very familiar with the different rules or types of penalties that they will—that the DAs offices and the courts are looking for. What’s interesting right now is with the overcrowding that we are seeing in the jails because of new California law people who get DUIs who would normally as a penalty have to do a short amount of time on a first offense, get a Sheriff’s work program, or maybe a day or two or a little more than that. Depends on the case or the county, but I’m seeing those penalties decrease. In fact, in Napa I had a client who recently got convicted of a DUI. This client was well over the limit and instead of having to do a day of the Sheriff’s work program, they basically have them come in, do a quick signing in papers, and then leave. They’re trying to run them through as quickly as they can and make room for the people coming back from the State prisons. They don’t have the room. So I’ve been seeing a lot of that lately.

 

RJ: I certainly wouldn’t say DUI is no big deal, because they’re not going to do anything to you. I understand what you mean.

 

RJ: In the counties that you deal with, do you ever deal with immigration issues and DUI? You know, someone is arrested and convicted of DUI. Does it affect their immigration status? If they’re legal, if they’re not legal?

 

AB: Yeah, we deal with that lot especially here in the Bay are, we’ve got a lot of clients from different parts of the world. I get a lof of clients from India who are here working for a number of the Silicon Valley companies, the dot-com-ers. And they are here on work Visas, green cards, and these are concerns so we’ve got to look out for not just convictions but the allegations that could happen as a result of convictions of a high blood alcohol level can make it tough to travel. One of the places that you can’t travel to if you have a DUI or an alcohol-related driving offense is Canada because since 911, they have our criminal and DUI DMV records and so Canada will not let you in if you have one of these convictions or through the course of suspensions from DUI for an alcohol-related driving offense. A lot of things that clients will call me for are expungements where we will get the conviction dismissed even before probation is over or sometimes once probation is over. And that helps clean up the record that immigration attorney are encouraging people to do that to help with the immigration. If you are trying to get a green card or trying to get a green card, you don’t want to try to do that while you are on probation. So sometimes we’ll do an early termination of the probation for that purpose, and most of the courts are fairly receptive to that reason. But yeah, it’s a concern and countries are getting stricter and stricter about it. I had a client from India recently who was stuck there for 3 or 4 weeks, and I had to get him a lot of different information to show that he was not – it was a pending case. There was a lot of confusion that he couldn’t get back here for. Eventually he did and he got a good result for the case, but it was very scary for him so immigration is, if you’re dealing with immigration, you should not being trying to handle a case by yourself. You should have a specialized DUI attorney.

 

RJ: Has anyone you know of been deported because of a DUI conviction?

 

AB: I can’t recall that happening on a first DUI conviction. I have a client who I represented many years ago, but again [indecipherable] DUI conviction was not a big problem if it is a serious DUI [indecipherable] or multiple DUIs, then you’re looking at the chance of deportation. Even if you are convicted of a first DUI, you’re filling out your paperwork, would say, then your attorney would have to admonish you, [indecipherable] so it’s something that we’re always concerned with.

 

RJ: How about cases where someone is sleeping in their car? They either have their keys in the ignition or they don’t. Those kind of – you ever run into those?

 

AB: Oh yeah, California required volitional movement. There are some states that just require control of the vehicle. California, you actually have to have driving. So if you are asleep in your car, they have to prove that you were driving. If you don’t admit it, they have no one who saw you drive, it’s much tougher for them to prove driving. Very often what a police officer will do is they’ll claim that they touched the hood and it was warm, so they’ll claim that you must have been driving recently. If you’re not admitting driving, it’s a much tougher case for them to prove. The most winnable cases for DUI attorneys especially good ones are the no driving offense, because driving is an element. You have to be driving a motorized vehicle. If they can’t prove driving, they can’t prove their case. When I hear no driving defense I know I’ve got a very good chance of winning the case.

 

RJ: So what’s your best tip – you know, someone’s driving, they’ve had a little bit or a lot to drink, they’re in the process of being pulled over, and their interaction with the police, what should they do? And what shouldn’t they do?

 

AB: Well, if you’re listening to me answer this question, it’s probably too late but for those who are searching or you know, looking for some advice on how to be smart, you do not, you’re not required to do field sobriety tests. You’re not required to blow into the preliminary breath machine. Only once you’ve been arrested, and that means custody plus interrogation, will you need – I’m sorry, we gotta start that one over.

 

RJ: So let’s say I’m driving and I’ve had one drink or many drinks, and I’m in the processing of being pulled over, what should I do in my interaction with the police to help me or hurt me? What should I do?

 

AB: The first thing the cops want to see you do, when they approach, they want to make sure that you are not a danger, so to keep them at ease, you know, have your window rolled down, and have your hands on the streering wheel where they can see them. They’ll see that. They won’t see you hiding things or looking around in your glove compartment. They’ll come up and they’ll be a little more calm. You want to be polite with them. You’ll pass that attitude test. But you don’t want to give them too much information. It’s very important to know that you are not required to do any of the field sobriety tests. And you are not required to blow into the preliminary breath screening device that they may have with them. Once, and only if, they’ve arrested you, then you’re required to do a chemical test in California. And that’s either a blood test or a breath test. And that’s some counties, they’ll be able to do that on the side of the road after they’ve cuffed you and arrested you, but in most of the counitues they’ll take you to a police station or a jail where that will be done. Sometimes the blood test is done at a hospital. The most important thing is just to be polite and respectfully decline to do their tests. Because what you’re doing by taking their tests is giving them more and more information to use against you. Telling them that you have a friend who’s a lawyer who said you should never do the test. They can write that down. That’s something to be able to use. Prosecution is trying to do is use this as an admission of guilt. So you really don’t want to igive them any information to use against you.

 

RJ: What if they assume that you’re going to do that? They say, step out of the car. They say, I’m going to need you to walk this line. Hey, I’m not confortable doing this. I decline. What would you say?

 

AB: I would say, if I know I’ve probably had too much to drink and I know I’m probably in trouble, I’d say, “Officer, I respectfully decline to do any field sobriety tests.” That’s what I’d do.

 

RJ: I imagine it’s one thing to say refuse. If they’re acting very authoritative and they’re assuming you’re going to do it, how would you respond. That’s why I asked you. But okay

 

AB: It’s especially important to understand that if once you’ve been arrested if you refuse to do that breath test or a blood test that if it’s a first DUI offense, you’re going to lose your privelges to drive for at least a year, and that doesn’t mean a restricted license. That means no driving for a year. So if you need to get the kids to school every day, or if you need to commute to work, you need to rent cars, whatever you need to do, you drive for a living, you will not be doing that for a full year if you refuse the test. A lot of people from other states will come out here, they’ll be up in the wine country, and refuse the test. Say they’re from Texas. They’ve been told in Texas, that’s what you do. You don’t take the tests and cops will explain it. And arguments happen, or people don’t believe the laws. They don’t believe the police officers. And they end up losing their license for a year.

 

RJ: So the main differentiator is before the arrest versus after the arrest. I just want to be clear.

 

AB: That’s right.

 

RJ: OK.

 

RJ: What kinds of help can you give, you know, people accused of a DUI? Can you help reduce fines, jail time, or ignition interlock? What kinds of things typically can you help to mitigate?

 

AB: What I basically do is when someone hires me, they’re going to be told that they will see from the first phone call that I will take care of everything. You hire me, I handle your case. It’s not someone right out of law school or someone from another law firm or a junior associate. You hire me, I represent you from the first intake phone or in-person consultation, I’m representing you all the way until I’m going to court, I’m dealing with motions, I’m dealing with the DMV, I’m going to trial if there’s a trial in the case. You hire me, you get me. What I can do for people depends on the type of case. What we’re always trying to do in every case is win in court and a win in DMV. If we’re unable to do that, we’re looking to try to get charges reduced and minimize penalties. In regards to your driver’s license, very often I’m able to minimize the amount of suspension that you may get. I’ve got a very good work relationship with the DMV, and all over the Bay area. I’ve know a lot of these hearing officers. Before they were hearing officers, they were clerical staff at these offices so I get a lot of respect in these places. I know the supervisors, and I’m going to get you the best result I can. I’m going to try to win that DMV hearing and if I can’t, we’re going to minimize any potential driving suspension in court. There are all sorts of penalties, the monetary penalties are very tough to do much with unless you get the actual charges reduced but the potential jail or Sheriff’s work program time, we can get that – you know what, we should probably do this segment over.

 

RJ: Now listen, this may be an impossible question to answer but what level of success have you had in mitigating some or all of all the nastiness of a DUI charge?

 

AB: It depends on the case. I’ve won cases. I think I’ve won as much if not more than anybody around here. I’ve had a lot of success with the DMV. I think I have more success than most attorneys do with the DMV. Having done this for almost 20 years, and doing exclusively DUI defense gives me an advantage because this is all I’m focusing on. The laws, the defenses, I go to conferences that are in different areas of the state, different states. I’m on different list serves, in California and nationally. I’ve got contacts in most of the states, most of the top DUI attorneys in most of the other states, and you know, it helps just practicing DUI law, so you know I had a case last year that was a felony DUI where they had a broken ankle. We had major cuts. It was something that was a clear, felony DUI. I was not able to make the whole thing go away, no surprise, but understanding how felony DUI law works, I was able to get the charge in the preliminary hearing reduced to a misdemeanor. And my client had to do a couple of days on the Sheriff’s work program but in the end, he didn’t do any. Success is going to depend on the case. The attorneys that do the harder cases, the multiple offense DUI, the injury/accident DUI – there are very few of us that actually do those and do them well. Those ones are usually much tougher. If you’re just doing first DUIs, you get .08s and .09s, you’re probably going to have a higher success rate. But I find that the prosecutors all over the Bay area have a lot more respect for the attorneys who really know the DUI law, who do the serious DUIs.

 

RJ: You’ve been doing this for about 20 years, what have you learned about people’s behavior, their reaction to being arrested for a DUI, what human insights have you gained into dealing with this with so many people?

 

AB: There’s a lot of things. One of the things is that there are those dark sides to many of us that we never knew existed. That then can come out when you’ve had way too much to drink. And people just need to be aware of that. We live in a society where there’s alcohol available to everyone. If someone has a serious drinking problem, it’s not just going to go away because they got a DUI conviction. There are people who need to go into programs. I’ve helped a lot of people get into programs and turn their lives around, but putting someone in jail can never be the answer. Everyone I’ve seen – not everyone but most people I’ve seen that had to go to jail for very serious cases, usually the multiple offenses and bad injury accidents, and there are the death cases. Going to jail doesn’t change them. What changes them are programs, counseling, but I think – getting back to your question – what have I seen about what have I learned about people and DUIs, I think what I’ve really learned, I learned this pretty quick, this can happen to anybody. You can be out there and not even expecting to drive. Someone else is the designated driver, and I use a lot of examples from cases I’ve had. I had a client who was out with a couple of friends of his, and the friends were boyfriend/girlfriend. And he was just out, he was a drinker, and one of them was the driver. The boyfriend/girlfriend got into a fight, and she wanted my client to take her home. He was just being a good friend. Well, he lost his job, a very good job. He had a special license. He had a license that was class A license so he couldn’t drive for his company anymore. That just – it can happen to anyone anytime. I’ve got another client that just picked up a second DUI. He didn’t learn his lesson the first time unfortunately. He kept drinking, and he wasn’t intending to drive. But for some reason, instead of getting a ride or walking like he intended to do, he was so drunk that he just grabbed his keys and went. Another client just recently here in San Francisco was just looking to move their car. They walked to where they drank, they walked home. And there were so drunk that they thought got to move the car, can’t get a ticket, can’t get it towed. Accident, hit and run, DUI. We actually got a really good result for that case, but it can happen to anybody. The best advice I can give if you’re going out drinking, you just make sure there’s absolutely no way that you can get behind the wheel. The best way you can avoid a DUI for those types of crazy situations is just no drink to excess. The only safe place is on a deserted island with no vehicles at all. Cars, drinking, for some people, they just don’t mix.

 

RJ: After the whole human insights thing, is there a particular story that you hear over and over and over from the people that come and see you?

 

AB: I hear, there’s no way that my blood alcohol level could be that high. I hear that constantly from people. You know, people will tell the police they had nothing to drink, one drinks, two drinks is the most popular answer. But no, it happens a lot, and very often they didn’t have as much to drink as the number, and that can be because they’re still absorbing alcohol but also what people don’t realize is the way that these drinks are measured. Most beer is close to if not over now 5%. Almost all the micro-beers, and some are 7, 8, 9%. A glass of wine is measured at 4 or 5 ounces. If you look at the size of a wine glass, some of these glasses are 16 to 18 ounces, and you want someone who gives you a pour, they don’t want to make it seem like a small pour, so they’ll give you 7 or 8 ounces or sometimes more in a glass of wine, and that’s what people pour for themselves. And the alcohol content has gone up so much in recent years, so if you’ve got a 7 or 8 ounce glass of fine that’s 14 or 15% alcohol, that’s going to be like 2 potentially 2 plus drinks, and if you had two of those and you don’t weigh very much, you acan be way over the limit because that can be like 4 or 5 drinks. And you know if you haven’t anything to eat, it absorbs pretty quickly, then you’re looking at being well over the limit if it’s all recent drinking before the drive. So I think that I didn’t have that much to drink is the most popular, the most common thread or statement that I hear from clients.

 

RJ: I noticed that even a beer, the standard quote unquote beer is 12 ounces but pint glasses can be 16 to 20 ounces. You’ve got long neck beers, you’ve got all sorts of stuff. You can easily have had 2 beers but you actually had 4 because of the pour and glass size and whatever.

 

AB: I remember when I was in college the popular drink was the Long Island Iced Tea. There’s so many different versions of those and some of the names are names that I wouldn’t say in front of my children. I hear them, I know them now because I’ve had enough clients say this is what I had. These are drinks where a normal drink will have an ounce, and ounce and a half, maybe 2 ounces, for hard alcohol, we’re talking about now 3, 4, 5 times that much, and that can get you, depending on your weight, to twice, three times, the legal limit, depending on a number of factors, but you really gotta watch you drink. Because that stuff can really creep up on you.

 

RJ: That’s very true.

 

AB: You’re absolutely right.

 

RJ: Do you feel the current DUI punishments are too harsh, too lax, and why?

 

AB: I would say it depends on what part of what we’re looking at. Having to go to school, you know, it’s not fun for anybody. The school themselves, there’s a lot of good stuff you get out of the school. The length of the school makes that much of a difference. Some counties are too harsh. Others aren’t. Some counties need to look at different levels of DUIs. For instance, Marin County will not allow negotiating for a wet or a dry reckless. That’s ridiculous. They end up having too many cases go to trial because of that, and it costs tax payers way to much money to do these trials. They should have different levels. I believe that what we’re starting to see work and I think where the government is going to go with this, and they’re testing it right now, is ignition interlock. And that’s where if you’ve been convicted of a DUI, or multiple DUIs, and some counties in California are doing this now on first DUI, that would be Palamina County, Savramento, Los Angeles, and Tulare. They require an iginition interlock device be installed on your car for you to be driving after a month of no driving, and to have that for at least 5 months, so what that does, when you get into a car and start the ignition, and depending on which device you have, there’s all sorts of companies out there, you have to a certain time later blow into it, after 30, 45 minutes later blow into it again. Those are things that I think will help with recidivism. I think that where they’re way to restrictive is they punish people with jail or Sheriff’s work program, DUI schools, huge fines, insurance ends up going up, you’re on probation, you know which again doesn’t allow you to get to Canada because of the probation. You’ve got all these strict penalties, and then on the license, though you can’t drive for 30 days, they’ll let you get a restricted license. That restriction is too strict. People, they’re going to be on a restricted license. You need to allow more than what it does. It allows to and from work while you’re working, and to and from your DUI school. Yet I have clients calling me up saying, wait, I need to get my kids to school, and that’s not allowed. I need to go the doctors, I need to go to my therapist, I need to go to school, that’s not allowed. The Sacramento DMV which controls this says there are no excuses, there’s no loop holes, and that’s wrong. They need to be able to expand that restriction. It’s really hurting people, and there’s absolutely no reason to. Someone on a restricted license should be able to do whatever they want, except things like going out and drinking, and if you want to set up a time limit on a restricted license, that might be okay, but I think what’s going to happen eventually and they’ve done this in other states. California will eventually go to interlock for everybody in every county on a first DUI. I think that’s what’s going to happen.

 

RJ: How about proposing to have an interlock on every car period.

 

AB: The problem with that, that would, I don’t think that they’ll ever go for that. It’s too restrictive. I don’t think the Congress at any level will do that. They may do that in some states, but I think people will see that as too much of an infringement on their rights. I think that, like in California, this testing of four counties for the interlock goes on for 5 years, and once we get closer to the end of this or we’re at it, they will require it for all first-time offenders. I think that that is going to be a big help. Most of our terrible strategies, injury accidents, the deaths, those happen usually it’s not your first-time offender with a low blood alcohol level. It’s someone who is usually a multiple offender.

 

AB: To make it completely go away, and that will never happen but some of the European countries have gone to zero tolerance. I can’t see our government going to that. It’s very restrictive but it’s easier to do that in some of these countries that have because they have great public transportation.

 

RJ: In some countries, you can’t have any alcohol at all.

 

AB: Exactly. Somewhere like Sweden and other European countries – zero tolerance. You lose your license for many years, you go to jail for a long time, fines can be tens of thousands. It goes on and on and on. And people are brought up, they have lower ages when they can start drinking in some of these countries, and people are brought up drinking from younger ages and they’re taught that alcohol is something that it’s a drink to be appreciated but it’s not something to abuse. And such a taboo in our country, once our country out of the house, oh, I can drink now. They really, they go to excess. That’s where you get the binge drinking. That’s where you get all the problems that we have. It’s a societal issue, and there are steps that are being taken now to reduce the amount of drinking going on, the binge drinking, but I just – anyway, cut this off.

 

RJ: So what are the pros and cons of hiring a private lawyer like yourself, versus a public defender, versus defending yourself?

 

AB: Well, defending yourself is never the way to go. There’s just too much at stake, whether it be penalties, probation, your license. Hiring an experienced DUI attorney – an attorney who does just DUI defense – will in almost all cases get you the minimum penalty possible. You really, really, if you can afford an attorney, need to consider hiring a private attorney versus a public defender, one you may not qualify for a public defender, two they do all sorts of criminal law. Some are good. Most doing the DUIs aren’t that experienced. But they don’t do the DMV hearing. And they don’t know how all that works. They’re not going to be able to walk you through it and help you, if you lose your license, get it back as soon as possible. They’ll walk into court with a case load of 10, 20, 30 cases, where as a private attorney will have 1, maybe 2, sometimes 1 more. You get that individual attention. That’s very important. If you can afford the attorney, hire the right attorney, and you have a right, a Constitutional 6th Amendment right to an attorney of your choice, and you need to use that.

 

RJ: Very good.

 

RJ: So as a closing statement, what makes you and your firm unique in providing DUI defense? What do you want to say to everyone that’s watching, that’s listening to this video that’s considering hiring you?

 

AB: There are a number of very good DUI lawyers in the San Francisco Bay area. You’ve got to find the right one for you. You’ve got to interview them. You’ve got to make sure who you talk to is the attorney who’s going to defend you, and you really, really need to make sure that they know what they’re doing. If you hire an attorney who has a big name, is part of a firm, they have a number of attorneys working for them, more than one or two. You’re not going to know who the attorney is whose representing you every time. Come over to my office, you hire me, I’m the one defending you. I’m experienced. I’ve got almost 20 years of experience. All I do is DUI defense. Every county in the Bay area, deal with DMV, got a great record with DMV, and you’re in good hands here. It’s important to make sure that the attorneys will get back to you, they’ll respond to you, to get back to you the same day, or within 24 hours. When I get real busy, it feels like I have too many cases going on. I stop taking cases. Some attorneys don’t, they just keep taking case after case. It’s important for me to be able to communicate with my clients and be able to get back to them to answer their question. Whether it be by phone or by email, I give out my cell number to all my clients. And someone who is local, who has been around here for a while, who is staying around here for a while, and someone who you feel comfortable with. It’s up to you. I always say talk to one or two attorneys at least before you make your decision because it’s a big decision, and you’ll make the right choice for you if you do that.

 

RJ: OK

 

AB: Thank you, Richard.

 

RJ: Thank you for your time. I appreciate it.